Hatz Biplane Association

Hi Daniel,
I also found an issue with the plan being off slightly. I cut the plan and corrected the 25" spar center dimension, it was only off by approx 1/64". I cut a piece of acrylic to the spar dimension and attached that to the Jig. The test rib came out great. I am waiting for a buddy to make his mind up on ordering a set of Hatz plans and building along with me. We will double the material orders and split the shipping cost. If he doesn't make his mind up soon I will place my order. I am limited at what I can do until I get my garage built this spring.

Jim,
I do not know where I ran into the particular post as I was all over the net while researching engine choices. I believe most of it was related to the links that you had already posted and I did not see anything that made me say no I do not want one of these engines.
Later!!
Anthony

Anthony,

We have something in common, I am also starting my Hatz after purchasing plans in October or November and I have also ordered my wood (from Wicks). I built my rib Jig for 3/4 ply and also built a steaming steaming rig to steam the stringers.
For practice, I bought some cheap hardware store 1/4 ply and made some nose ribs on the router table from a wood master. After making several pieces I built a new master template out of 1/4 plexiglass and drilled three holes for brad nails to secure the wood. I also took a 4x6 and cut the airfoil shape on the band saw and steamed a few practice pieces of 1/4 inch hardware store wood. Everything seems to be very similar to balsa on plans construction (from my RC days).

Looking forward to sharing your struggles with this building process.

Daniel

As an aside, I had a shrinkage issue with my full size rib template from Makelen. Double check the dimension between the spars before building your Jig. (25", if my memory is correct). Doug was kind enough to share his CAD drawings from which I printed a new full size template (and also learned that the rollers on most printers will distort the drawing - so be careful with copies. - I found a guy with a plotter that avoided this printing issue.

Hi Doug and Anthony.

Thanks for your support and smoothing things over.

Just to ease my mind it might help if Nick and Anthony pointed me to references about Rotec's terrible service and the Rotec radial’s unreliability? After all these are harsh criticisms and it would be nice to correct such rumours or posts, or at least provide a reply to their criticisms. If Nick or Anthony feel uncomfortable using the forum they could email the info to me.

Jim

Hello Jim,

My apologies for declaring you an owner.. that was a mistake on my part.

We certainly welcome your input and that of your sons if they so desire. As with many others I have read any feedback I could find (good or bad) about Rotec and what few negative things I could find all seemed to be tied to the people behind the website you listed previously... which, as you pointed out, has been discredited. I have yet to find any credible negative feedback about Rotec and have long since given up looking for any. There are certainly enough engines out there for the product to speak for itself.

As for Nick's post, I interpreted it to be Nick (perhaps stumbling across said discredited website?) and looking to hear real, honest, feedback from real customers.

So, I hope (think) we are past the miscommunications. Glad to have you among us Jim.

I'm looking forward to the day when an R3600 is hanging on my Hatz. 8-)

[quote="Nick"]Good luck, Anthony. I sure wish i had all your resources when I started!

John, how's that Rotec working out? There seems to be an element who believe Rotec engines are unreliable and that Rotec service is terrible. Can you comment? I'd love to have an R3600 on my Classic, but the rumors have me wondering. Would love to hear a real experience.

Nick[/quote]


R28R36,

Your opinions are appreciated but in my opinion Nick was just asking John(who is flying with a Rotec) his experiences and expressed his concerns over what he had read at other forums/postings. Anyone who has been researching about getting an engine has seen all the postings good and bad( I have read them all) I believe Nick was just trying to get clarification from a trusted unbias source(John). I see nothing wrong with the post from Nick.
AS I stated earlier if my wife has her way I will be buying a Rotec 3600 for my Hatz. I would be happy with that engine and have no fears of flying with one. We shall see once I get closer to framing up the plane which way I go.

Now off to the fun part of building jigs!!
Anthony

[quote]Since you are an owner of Rotec...[/quote]

Hi hatzadmin and all:

I'm not the owner.

However my sons are, and I do get involved from time to time to advise and help administer some of the functions...

Beyond seventy years of age my advice and help and workload is easing off, and at this stage I only concentrate on database functions and website work. At best I'm an unpaid employee and have been so from the time Rotec came into existence back in the year 2000.

I'm not sure how I should declare myself but it’s true to say I'm biased towards Rotec.

I find [b]unsubstantiated accusations and rumours [/b] of the type that Nick posted annoying because the sole purpose of such posts is to denigrate the Company.

The annoyance is further exacerbated by the knowledge that my Sons provide the highest level of support possible, both in response time and in efficiency - all provided usually within a working day from receiving a query. Such is their passion and could it be that Nick seeks to puncture this passion?

As for the engine: the Rotec radial has survived 10 years of production and flight. Surely if there was something dramatically wrong with it Rotec would not have survived for this period of time in, what is after all, a niche market in an experimental category.

My Sons welcome constructive criticism; but, If there is to be criticism then at least let such be coupled to factual pointers for discussion.

(father of the owners)

Hello Jim,
I believe we here at the Hatz forum have provided Nick with some accurate, independent. positive feedback on your engines. As a Rotec customer and Hatz Webmaster I welcome your comments and contributions to our community.

Perhaps I'm reading it wrong, but your post seems to read as though it is from an "independent" individual. Since you are an owner of Rotec, I would ask that you identify yourself as such in your posts. I'm sure folks here on the forum would welcome the chance to ask questions of you if they knew you were participating in our forum.

Looking forward to hearing more from you,
Doug.

[quote]
John, how's that Rotec working out? There seems to be an element who believe Rotec engines are unreliable and that Rotec service is terrible. Can you comment? I'd love to have an R3600 on my Classic, but the rumors have me wondering. Would love to hear a real experience.
[/quote]

Two things for Nick to look at:

1. How does he explain the comments contained here: http://www.rotecengines.com/Testimonials.html note tha most of these people provide email addresses for readers to use if they wish to check further
2. The rumousrs were spread by these discredited people. Read about them here: http://www.rotecradial.com/

Jim

Hi Nick,

A good friend of mine is building a Hatz and has decided to power it with the Rotec R3600, based on my experience with the engine in my Spacewalker. There is a lot of similarity between the SW2 and the Hatz, other than the extra wing of course, and if you like the radial look and sound, as well as the performance, you won't do better. I can say that the engine performs better than I had imagined and is a joy to fly behind. Reliability isn't an issue, and I know that the guys at Rotec have answered each and every query I had immediately. They are passionate about their product. I only wish Jabiru felt the same way......
If I can assist any of you guys with engine installation or operating methods, feel free to contact me

Cheers

Martin

Hi Guys,
I am going to try to make master templates for for the rib parts for my router. I was thinking about using 1/4" lexan or PVC for the part masters. I think it would hold up a better than ply, any opinions here? I have the material on hand. My templates and jigs may be used to build 2 planes so I want them to last and even pass them on down the road to another builder.

My rib jigs will have a 3/4" MDF base with the plans glued down with 1/8" lexan screwed down on top of the plans. The jig blocks will be made from 3/16" lexan screwed into position and I will have a vertical clamp at each gusset location.
Later!!
Anthony