Rigging Aileron Throws (deflectionz)

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Rigging Aileron Throws (deflectionz)

Postby Ebby » Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:16 pm

My goal is to have all wings covered before the spring equinox. That written, I am in the process of rigging the aileron throws of 25 degrees up and 20 degrees down as shown in the plans. I am using an electronic level on the upper surface of the aileron just as I do at work checking proper rigging. I place the level mid chord on the Hatz aileron with the trailing edge even with the wings trailing edge. I calibrate the level to 0 degrees and begin to move the centered (plumb) control stick watching the degrees count up to 25 degrees and set the appropriate aileron stop near the torque tube. Then I reverse the movement of the control stick watching the digital readout pass through zero and glad to see the control stick is plumb. Unfortunately with full opposite movement of the control stick I cannot achieve 20 degrees downward deflection.

From what I gather, there are three adjustments I can work with to find the proper combination which will yield 25 up and 20 down. It's getting a little frustrating as making one adjustment affects the other two. So I am asking for advice on a systematic method for setting the aileron throws.

The three adjustments I have to work with are (SEE ATTACHMENTS):

A - The control tube from the torque tube to the idler.
B - The control tube from the idler to the bellcrank.
C - The control rod from the bellcrank to the aileron.

All tubes measure out correctly according to plans. Each adjustable control has a left hand and right hand rod end so I can adjust the length by rotating the tube or rod.
Attachments
IMG_0003.JPG
IMG_0003.JPG (1.07 MiB) Viewed 2230 times
IMG_0004.JPG
IMG_0004.JPG (1.2 MiB) Viewed 2230 times
Ebby
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Re: Rigging Aileron Throws (deflectionz)

Postby mmcgrew » Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:08 pm

For what it is worth

I secured the stick at dead center

I secured the ailerons at neutral

I set the aileron bell crank at the middle of its travel

I connected the push pull tubes to the stick

I then connected the aileron control rods

My deflections came out to 2 1/2" up and 2" down

Works great

Note: if you go full aileron deflection in a Hatz - you will be upside down pretty quick. My plane requires very little movement for standard rate turns.

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Re: Rigging Aileron Throws (deflectionz)

Postby mmcgrew » Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:13 pm

PS - I also have thrown away the aluminum skinned ailerons. My personal opinion is they did not look right with a fabric wing ( even thou that is what Waco did). I have built fabric ailerons like the CB 1 and they are sooooo sweet.

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Re: Rigging Aileron Throws (deflectionz)

Postby Ebby » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:12 pm

I'll give your method a try and see how the deflection angles match the plans. To me 25 up and 20 down seems high. As far as the aluminum ailerons go I've got too much time invested in pressing my own skins and fabricating to change horses in mid stream and build wood and fabric replacements.

Thanks much for your rigging recommendation.
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Re: Rigging Aileron Throws (deflectionz)

Postby mmcgrew » Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:20 pm

Some where in the plans the 25 - 20 degrees is stated at 2" and 2 1/2". I do not know if this (2 - 2 1/2" converts to 20 - 25 degrees)? But these numbers worked well for me. I know on the ailerons, I also pressed my own skin and it was a hard choice to trash them. But some one just starting might investigate this. I made the switch after seeing John Hanson's plane at OSH (he has fabric ailerons)

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Re: Rigging Aileron Throws (deflectionz)

Postby stearmoth » Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:01 am

Hi Folks,
Thanks for the input, will make use of this when assembling the aileron set up.
One thought about the aliminum ailerons: In fact, for us this has been the biggest challenge in the hole building of our Vintage Hatz have been the ailerons. The problem is finding the correct shape for the skins near the tip in order that it naturally blends into the wing tip bow. We assembled the ailerons attached to the wing and glued a sandwich with both top and bottom skins and a wood triangle. We used a slow curing elastic 2 komp. sealer because we feared that a rigid epoxy would fail in shear when torsion is applied. The aileron trailing edge we supported by attaching a straight lumber to the wing trailing edge and used a lot of spring clamps. This is not an easy task because the clamps tend to slip away from the triangle shaped trailing edge.

Not all 4 ailerons came out exactly the same and for a future project we would build a jig for this task for the goal to achieve a perfect shape. The big problem is that the aileron hinge line comes as far toward the tip as about 2 to 3" . Therefore a wooden aileron with some separate hinges can be built much easier.

At last, of course, it's a personal taste, but our aim has been to build the wings to look like on a Waco QCF....

We wish all Hatzers and their honeys a Merry Christmas and a happy New Year!

Hans & Sam, H.C.#78, Switzerland
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Re: Rigging Aileron Throws (deflectionz)

Postby Ebby » Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:53 pm

I'll be rigging this weekend and will do a comparison of angular and linear measures for the throws. One of my first attempts was fixing a vertical stick just aft of the aileron trailing edge with the aileron at neutral (0 degrees). Then I placed a mark 2.5" above neutral and 2.0" below neutral and moved the stick to see what that looked like. It didn't look like much of a deflection in either direction. I certainly am not saying that its wrong because the plans do reference those measurements and I haven't seen any Classic owners show me first person how much their ailerons deflect. To me it just didn't look like enough. I didn't have my electronic protractor at the time so I couldn't get an angular measurement. I will have a better fix on the comparison this Saturday.

I don't know how much of a difference this will make but I have ailerons on the bottom wings only and extended them to the wing tip. My theory was if I only had lower wing ailerons, I would have a more docile roll.

On another note, I saw in the Stewart Systems video the use of felt applied to the leading edge of the Piper wing and was wondering if anyone building a Hatz used felt on their leading edges. From what I gather, the intent of using felt is to mitigate imperfections and provide a measure of protection from bumps and bruises. Thoughts?
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Re: Rigging Aileron Throws (deflectionz)

Postby mmcgrew » Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:01 pm

Polyfiber makes a polyester bat for this purpose. I used it. This is a very common practice with Stearman restorers. It does all that you stated. All imperfections are hidden under the bat and makes a nice cushioned leading edge..

Installation notes for Polyfiber system

1. Do not over stretch the bat. Just lay it in place. When you shrink the fabric the bat will be compressed.
2. Let the bat wrap to the inside of the spar.
3. Glue the bat to the back of the spar (only to the back) with Polytac
4. Do not flood the fabric with the first coat of Polybrush
You want to keep from saturating the bat. If you do soak the bat, You will end up with hard spots.

5. Once the fabric is sealed with the first coat - your good to go.

I have also used this on several Stearman wings and would not do a wing without it.

As far as aileron deflections. As said before, I have 2" and 2 1/2". While flying and observing the aileron movement in very steep turns, little aileron movement is required. Having flown Stearmans, I am very impressed on how responsive the Hatz is in roll. I do have upper and lower ailerons. Which I think makes a big difference.

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Re: Rigging Aileron Throws (deflectionz)

Postby M Lightsey » Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:21 pm

The leading edge batting also keeps the fabric smooth when your leading edges expand and contract due to heat. Works especially well where aluminum sections overlap. Without it, the fabric will sometimes gather and wrinkle from the underlying movement.
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Re: Rigging Aileron Throws (deflectionz)

Postby Ebby » Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:48 am

I followed Mike's rigging suggestion and observed I had 24.6 degrees up aileron and 17.9 degrees down aileron without any stop adjustments. These measurements are close to the 25/20 listed in the plans and I infer these are the limits of aileron movement and not necessarily the "flying specifications". Using the stops I can adjust the throws to nearly any value within the previously mentioned upper and lower limits. Taking Mike's flying advice I will adjust my starting "flying specifications" to 2.5" up and 2.0" down.

Using the electronic protractor, with my ailerons having a 12.25" top skin, 2.5" up at the trailing edge gave a reading of 11.9 degrees and 2.0" down gave a reading of 9.6 degrees. YMMV

In the Stewart video, it is mentioned that the felt can be purchased at my local craft store. After visiting, WalMart, Hobby Lobby and Michael's I couldn't bring myself to purchase any of their offerings for felt. Returning home I placed an order with ACS for polyester batting.

I am using the Stewart system and will follow the instructions given in the video which sound very similar to the polyfiber method. I communicated with Jason at Stewart and he recommenced using foam roller to apply the Ekobond rather than a brush to minimize disturbing the polyester structure. A big difference in the two methods is in the Stewart video they apply two coats of Ekobond to the felt before covering and it sounds like the Polyfiber method only attaches the fabric to the rear of the forward spar. My leading edges are wood. By not filling the pores of the batting am I setting up a situation where condensation will settle in the batting causing rot?

All of this advice is great as my gut feeling is I am getting close to the end of this build.
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