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Subject: "A Hatz it has to be, but wich one?"     Previous Topic | Next Topic
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Sigurjon
Member since Dec-20-09
1 posts
Dec-20-09, 01:08 PM (CST)
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"A Hatz it has to be, but wich one?"
 
   Hello everyone,
As this is my first post on the forum, I think a small introduction is in order! My name is Sigurjon Valsson, an Icelandic pilot that drives an Airbus A300-600RF for a living but have an unhealthy interest in grassroot aviation. I´m particulary interested in vintage aviation, to my sins I´ve got a share in an Auster J1 Autocrat (a highly modified British version of a pre-war Taylorcraft) that is now spread all over the hangar for restoration that is progressing slowly. I´ve also got a Miles M.65 Gemini hanging from the rafters of my hangar, waiting patiently for enough time to continue her restoration. As a flying aircraft I´ve got a CAP-10B for light aeros.

Now that the introduction is over, I´d like get to the point of me writing this.
Ever since I can remember, I´ve wanted a Waco biplane. In today´s world, that is a far away dream as the prices are only for millioners. Many years ago, I found out about the Hatz, and thought it would make a superb poor mans Waco, but didn´t make any efforts to secure plans. Last year, I found out about one dear friend of mine that had harboured similar thoughts for years, but didn´t do anything about it either! After talking things over, downing innumerable cups of coffee sitting in the leather in his hangar, we decided to order the plans for the Hatz CB-1. It was only after ordering the plans, that we found out that the CB-1 might not be what we are after! The Hatz Classic is exactly what we are after, as it looks on paper to be a more versatile aircraft with higher gross weight and G-loading plus it looks somewhat more 30´s.
The criteria I would like to be able to meet is the following:
#I´d like to have a Lycoming O-320 fitted
#I´d like the aircraft to be a true two seater
#I´d like to have the ability to fly slow graceful biplane aerobatics (loops, rolls, hammerheads, cuban eights).
#I´d like the aircraft to be as close to a Waco in looks as possible

The CB-1 can be made to fit those criteria, but what is worrying me a little is the relatively low take off weight of 1400 pounds. The increased weight of the O-320 as compared to the original C-85 will push the emty weight up, making it in effect a single seater. Also the rather limted +5/-3 load is going to be a headache. Mind you, the CAP-10 is perfectly happy at about +4 to +4.5 for the aeros I do so maybe that is not so limiting.

The question is, does anyone of you chaps know the modifications made to the Hatz Classic to allow a hight take off weight and increase in G-load?
Or do I just send 250 dollars over to get the Hatz Classic plans and be done with it?

Sigurjon


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hatz215
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74 posts
Dec-20-09, 01:58 PM (CST)
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1. "RE: A Hatz it has to be, but wich o"
In response to message #0
 
   Sigurjon,

I've been flying an O-320 CB-1 for over twenty years. It will haul anything that will fit in it. I've had front seat passengers in excess of 300#. My original empty weight was 917# with gross set at 1600#. I'm 6'5" so I have no room to spare in a stock CB-1. The Classic is definitely roomier.

Steve G


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Rusk Bill
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156 posts
Dec-24-09, 09:52 AM (CST)
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2. "RE: A Hatz it has to be, but wich o"
In response to message #1
 
  

To the best of my knowledge there were no structural mods done to the Hatz Classic to justify the increased GW. The airplane is heavier than the CB-1 and so the GW numbers were revised upward with so supporting research, data, or analysis; however, that said, to the best of my knowledge there has not been a structural failure of a Hatz.
Jurg, if you are still on the site, would you care to weigh in on this? Mark M has spoken to engineers regarding the Hatz and may also be able to elaborate on this as well.
I do feel that it is absolutely imperative that a G meter be installed in every Hatz that is ever going to be looped, rolled or used for anything other than straight and level flight.
Just my opinion and I would love to see other inputs on this.

Bill


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Mark Marino
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57 posts
Dec-27-09, 06:00 PM (CST)
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3. "RE: A Hatz it has to be, but wich o"
In response to message #2
 
   I think Bill is right on. Unless I'm missing something out there, a professional stress analysis specifically for the CB-1 has never been done (until now). Just because Hatz biplanes aren't falling out of the sky doesn't mean they don't have limitations. This web site touts the CB-1 as having a 5+, 3- G limitation. Streamline designs report gives it a 3.4+, 2- limit at a gross weight of 1400 pounds.

I posted this message recently without much of a response and that probably will be the case until we have a dedicated page for this subject on our site.

"Streamline Designs, LLC has completed the CB-1 spar analysis for the HBA. I'm working on having a permanent and separate page on this web site to provide easy access to the report. Until then I have posted a pdf on the Hatz Bantam site www.hatzbantam.com. The summary is titled "How Many G's?". A separate fifteen page "Hatz CB-1 Spar Analysis" is embedded under "Resources" on the second page."

This is good material for all Hatz builders and flyers. Let's do everything we can to keep our good safety record.

Happy New Year everyone!

Mark Marino



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